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16 Replies Last post: May 8, 2008 7:27 PM by Bill Kutik   Branched to a new thread. 1 2 Previous Next
Click to view Jason Corsello's profile High-Performer 43 posts since
Sep 5, 2007

May 6, 2008 2:43 PM

Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

Is it good for customers? Does this change the market? Will consolidation accelerate among the vendors? How will the competitors like SuccessFactors, Kenexa, Authoria, Plateau, Cornerstone OnDemand, and others need to respond?

Get engaged in the discussion now for commenting on this thread.
Click to view Elaine Orler's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Sep 11, 2007
1. May 6, 2008 3:16 PM in response to: Jason Corsello
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

All great questions... and the truth is only time will tell. It is a strong move on Taleo's part, and does position them to be one of the strongest vendors in this market, but do wonder what it will do to the TM market as a whole. Talent Management as a discipline is still new - compared to HCM and ERP. When two of the leading providers of TM solutions that have a core Talent Acquisition platform become one, it changes the landscape, definately.

The last major Talent Acquisition, Acquisition was ADP's acquisition of VirtualEdge. The were questions on how that would impact the Talent Acquisition (ATS - Applicant Tracking System) market, and the reality is it has been a success, by all indications. Kenexa's acquisition of BrassRing is another one of note.

This was a good strategic move on Taleo's part, and what will make or break it in my mind, is how the customers of both organizations end up responding.

Click to view Bill Kutik's profile Rookie 22 posts since
Oct 6, 2007
2. May 6, 2008 4:19 PM in response to: Elaine Orler
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

My take is more nitty gritty. What does this mean for Vurv's customers? This really is analagous on a smaller scale to the Oracle takeover of PeopleSoft, and the questions are very similar. One thing Taleo has told me is once the deal closes, they will no longer sell Vurv recruiting to new customers. Oracle ended up selling more PeopleSoft HCM than Oracle's after the close and may continue to do that now.


Taleo has committed to supporting Vurv's customers, but for how long? Oracle's "lifetime support" for PeopleSoft turned out to be longer than a fruitfly's life but shorter than a cat's. Certainly Taleo will support it for 18 months until the "unified platform" is in place and probably for the 12-month period that they give all customers to upgrade to the new Taleo version. So that's 30 months, but how much longer after that? CEO Mike Gregoire talked about giving them "the opportunity to upgrade" at the 18th-month mark. What does "opportunity" mean exactly?


Will Taleo actually port Vurv recruiting to this new platform for integrated Talent Management? I doubt it, but that's just my opinion.


And Taleo also said they would take features out of Vurv for their next version of recruiting. But I don't think we're talking about a Fusion-like product for the new platform. Gregoire only mentioned Compensation as a Vurv product they could use. Something Taleo has needed for a long time. But how about Optimization (the recently acquired off-boarding product). Clearly Taleo doesn't need Vurv's performance management or on-boarding products.


So lots of unknowns and no reason for Vurv customers to panic. Gregoire promised the financial community a second call in a month with more details about integrating the two companies and their products. Assumedly, the customers will be told, too.

Click to view Bill Kutik's profile Rookie 22 posts since
Oct 6, 2007
3. May 7, 2008 12:37 AM in response to: Bill Kutik
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

More details and thoughts gleaned during the day.

In addition to Vurv's compensation product, Taleo will evidently use its on-boarding and off-boarding products, plus the competency library Vurv acquired with InScope, now embedded in its own performance management product.

Taleo has bought one big problem that Vurv has been struggling with: How to get the first 100 or more customers off the customized versions Vurv originally wrote for them onto a standard product that is configurable, not customizable. And now Taleo will have to support them until it figures out how.

Also, when it comes time to migrate the Vurv base to Taleo (which I assume has to be the eventual plan) how will Vurv customers react to the sticker shock of the industry's most premium-priced product? Will Taleo maintain the same lower prices Vurv customers have enjoyed? And if not, how can they be kept in the fold?

Recruiting has experienced more churn than any other software category, probably since it has been hosted for at least 10 years. Every year for the last four, I have asked the HR Technology Conference audience whether they plan to change recruiting vendors in the next 12 months. And every year, half of those voting have said "yes." Vurv customers still have alternatives.

Click to view Wayne Chattaway's profile Rookie 4 posts since
May 7, 2008
4. May 7, 2008 3:55 PM in response to: Jason Corsello
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

I think it is a great move for the viability of the talent management technology space. It's no longer possible to build from scratch all the point solutions in time for the markets need...and still remain best of breed. The acquisition allows Taleo to offer best of breed solutions in all components except Learning....which would be the next logical move BTW. In additoin, the acquisition will make Taleo the engine behind nearly all of the Tier One HRO providers. Finally, the move will finally force the portfolio of customized clients from the Recruitmax days to get on the same platform. This will cause heartache in the beginning as these customers are used to designing what they consider best of breed, but inevitably they will benefit from the feedback from 48 of the Global 100 that will have a voice into the product roadmap.

My hope is that Taleo does a thorough job of analyzing the human capital that Vurv will add to their organization. In my days at Recruitmax and then Vurv, many wins were because of the people. I hope that is not lost during the integration efforts. After all, you should practice what you preach.

Click to view David Pickles's profile Rookie 7 posts since
Oct 15, 2007
5. May 7, 2008 4:34 PM in response to: Jason Corsello
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition
This may only be a temporary issue, and maybe not an issue at all, but as an existing Taleo customer, I'm concerned about the level of service and support while they focus attention on assimilating Vurv. We saw this to some degree when PeopleSoft bought JD Edwards. Responsiveness to our PeopleSoft Enterprise issues seemed to slow down to a snail's pace.


Also, what will this mean for Taleo Enterprise customers regarding the next release or two as they figure out how to pull in the technology from Vurv that they want to incorporate. The Taleo 7.5 upgrade was significant from a structural standpoint, and therefore much more complicated to implement than their previous upgrades that could pretty much be done in the background, allowing you to turn on new options only when you wanted to through configuration. We are not anxious for repeats of the 7.5 effort in the next few go-rounds.

Ultimately, I think the consolidation is a good thing and needs to happen, but there are always growing pains to live through.

Click to view Rob Humphrey's profile Rookie 1 posts since
May 7, 2008
6. May 7, 2008 5:32 PM in response to: Jason Corsello
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

This is great for Taleo and all Taleo and Vurv customers. It is not good for folks like Jeff Carr (Taleo's VP of Sales) nor is it good for any

of the Vurv employees. I have already heard from a dozen about looking for a new job.

Click to view gregg dourgarian's profile Rookie 3 posts since
May 7, 2008
7. May 7, 2008 7:32 PM in response to: Jason Corsello
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

Let's Not Call It Bonding Together

One of the press releases claimed that the development groups from the two companies were coming together, "bonding", to create "synergy" and the greatest ever talent technology team.

This may be what will happen, but acquisitions rarely result in bonding. Instead, the event takes on the closing that it really is, with disruption and unpleasantness for all parties involved. I received my education in bonding together in third grade when my elementary school ‘merged' with another, and I ended up walking an extra mile to get to school each day.

The acquirer might state that they are preparing a sound upgrade path for their affected clients, but software platforms do not mesh easily. Soon the cozy pillow talk of mutual benefits subsides, and the nasty task of porting a client from one environment to another begins. This is a very tough task since even the best IT people tend to have trouble handling two distinct platforms at the same time.

These incompatibilities do not always surface at the beginning of the merger. In fact, things may begin with a honeymoon period during which top management declares that the acquired company will continue to run as a separate business entity. After three months or so, the rumbling begins to get loud, and after six months, a complete management change and exodus of staff takes place.

This may not happen here, but if it does fast moving competitors will move in to serve their neglected customers.

Gregg Dourgarian

CEO, Tempworks Software

Click to view Andy Gebavi's profile Veteran 23 posts since
Sep 11, 2007
8. May 7, 2008 8:03 PM in response to: Jason Corsello
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition
Great for Vurv and Taleo's competitors due to the FUD created around the two platforms.

Great for Vurv's management as they get to parachute out of a failing company.

Good for Taleo's bottom line generally as they capture Vurv's license revenue and installed base

Bad for Taleo and Vurv customers over the short term as they deal with the uncertainty of not knowling whether their current platforms are still viable

I wonder if Taleo regrets all the time, treasure and energy it devoted to building their own Perf and Succession modules now. They added some nice bells and whistles but are almost assured not to recoup their investment for years to come when they "unify" the platform Sounds like Oracle Fusion on a smaller scale to me - and attempted by an organization without the financial resources of Oracle....hmm....
Click to view Wayne Chattaway's profile Rookie 4 posts since
May 7, 2008
9. May 7, 2008 9:31 PM in response to: Andy Gebavi
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

I'd like to give my 2 cents on Andy's analysis

Great for Vurv and Taleo's competitors due to the FUD created around the two platforms.

Anyone that goes with a best of breed platform other than Taleo right now will have the same problem. Taleo has alot of cash and they can buy anyone in the space....besides ADP VE. If I did the math right this acquisition still leaves Taleo with $90M.

Great for Vurv's management as they get to parachute out of a failing company.

There's varying parachutes. Certainly the C-level will be do fine...with Derek deservingly getting the lions share. He had put his all into creating a technology leader in his hometown.....which by the way is not San Fran or Austin. Many of the other managers will find themselves in small market Jacksonville with little choice but to relocate if they want to stay in the space.

Good for Taleo's bottom line generally as they capture Vurv's license revenue and installed base

Agree with increasing top line....bottom line should remain the same.

Bad for Taleo and Vurv customers over the short term as they deal with the uncertainty of not knowling whether their current platforms are still viable

Taleo customers will be fine....more than likely Vurv customers will be doing the platform change.....some of which desperately needing to be put out of their misery of being on a custom path....others will benefit from the R&D of many of the largest, most-complex organizations in the world.

I wonder if Taleo regrets all the time, treasure and energy it devoted to building their own Perf and Succession modules now. They added some nice bells and whistles but are almost assured not to recoup their investment for years to come when they "unify" the platform Sounds like Oracle Fusion on a smaller scale to me - and attempted by an organization without the financial resources of Oracle....hmm....

I doubt there will be any regrets. This is where the synergies will be HUGE. Both organizations have thought leaders in this area and my guess will quickly improve Taleo's Perf and Succession Products. The regret should be Successfactors which should have made this move before Taleo.

This is a debate page so let the discussion continue.......

Click to view gregg dourgarian's profile Rookie 3 posts since
May 7, 2008
10. May 7, 2008 9:44 PM in response to: Wayne Chattaway
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

Anyone that goes with a best of breed platform other than Taleo right now will have the same problem.


Wayne...That's a sweeping remark, and false. It may apply to companies like Vurv which according to the analyst call was deeply in debt and unprofitable. It doesn't apply to profitable private software companies that see the "synergy" you describe as an opportunity to take care of newly underserved clients.


Gregg Dourgarian

CEO, Tempworks Software

Click to view Wayne Chattaway's profile Rookie 4 posts since
May 7, 2008
11. May 7, 2008 9:55 PM in response to: gregg dourgarian
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

I did not hear "deeply in debt and not profitable" on the call. I'm sure Derek M and Mike G would say otherwise. Regardless, if someone is looking for a financially stable, reliable, best-of-breed product to manage their most important asset- PEOPLE- there are few choices besides Taleo. Any other solution, if they begin to gain any traction, will be gobbled up or priced right out of the market. All roads will lead to Taleo or an ERP...certainly with exceptions.
Click to view HRSales's profile Rookie 1 posts since
May 8, 2008
12. May 8, 2008 3:24 AM in response to: Wayne Chattaway
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

"Regardless, if someone is looking for a financially stable, reliable, best-of-breed product to manage their most important asset- PEOPLE- there are few choices besides Taleo."

What about Kronos, would they be considered one of the few choices aside from Taleo?

Click to view Wayne Chattaway's profile Rookie 4 posts since
May 7, 2008
13. May 8, 2008 3:09 PM in response to: HRSales
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

Kronos would scare me a bit because their core competancy remains time and attendance and they have two different Applicant Tracking Systems. I would only consider if I was running a large hourly workforce and could leverage my Kronos relationship to get the ATS for peanuts.


Click to view Paul Storfer's profile Rookie 2 posts since
May 8, 2008
14. May 8, 2008 5:42 PM in response to: Wayne Chattaway
Re: Debating the Taleo-Vurv Acquisition

I think the point everyone is missing is that the real functionality promised by almost all of the Talent Management systems isn't being delivered, so the combinations only serve to distract. Market share is only part of the "game". Delivering real IMPACT, more than merely making bad processes more efficient, is the real key, and no single vendor in the market right now can deliver on that promise in all (or even most) areas of Talent Management.